Sections

13 Apr 2017 09:32 #71363 by AdrianT
Sections was created by AdrianT
Firstly I must just say that VE is an excellent forum that contains a wealth of information through its eager and passionate members. Without them it wouldn’t be what it is today. Thanks also to the admins and mods who keep the machine well oiled. I have a few small suggestions to potentially make the forum even more awesome.

Currently there are 4 sections to the forum and their titles and corresponding number of topics/threads at presents is:

Drakensberg 1122
Lesotho 30
Other Regions 108
General 265

The front page of the website says, “Vertical Endeavour is a community-driven website featuring mountains, with a special emphasis on the Maloti-Drakensberg Region.” The Drakensberg is the focus of the website, there is no disputing that - it is clearly obvious in the amount of threads there already. There are people from all over South Africa that hike in the Berg, but also hiking in the areas where they live. I’m of the opinion that if more sections were introduced, VE would become even more comprehensive than it currently is. The benefit to us locals as well as international visitors is obvious. Instead of just “Other Regions” as a section, perhaps the country can be divided into provinces so that effectively more sections are created. Perhaps not every province, grouping a few together could work, like maybe Western and Northern Cape together.

Admin or mods would argue, well they can just post under “Other Regions”. Yes and no. Yes they can post there, but no because people may feel that posting about a hiking trip in the Freestate won’t be welcomed by the website, given its dominant Berg orientation. And it also makes for threads getting lost over the years if bunched together. Many users don’t actually use the search function correctly. I’ve been an admin on Playak.com for years now and have seen this countless times.

So Adrian, the Berg section has more than 10 times the amount of posts than “Other Regions”. If it was the other way round maybe we’d take you more seriously with your suggestion, you may be thinking. Well, perhaps there aren’t as many posts because the means has not been put up. Perhaps a 12 month trial period could be implemented. People do love to post of their adventures. I for one, certainly enjoy reading all the tales and absorbing the photos.

Please don’t take this as bashing the forums. I’m a huge fan, and it is my every intention for this to be taken as constructive, positive stuff! Often times when we are the ones on the inside we don’t see it the way others do and it is difficult to imagine it any other way. To me, creating more sections would encourage more posts about hiking in other areas and attract an even larger audience. This would mean more information that is out there and if traffic and advertising for financial gain is a factor then that too is highly beneficial to the owners of VE. Everyone wins.

Then again on the new sections. Please add a section for trail running. Please! :woohoo: Even as a 12 month trial. If there are 5 posts after a year just move them to “Other Regions” and that’s that. Trail running forums for South Africa probably exist, I don’t know but I’m guessing they do. But we all know we have so many members here that hike and trail run. Whether they are the running gods like Andrew Porter or Stijn Laenen, or the turtle runners like me, the guys (and girls) are on this website exploring the mountains and many are running. If I were to take a guess I’d say at least 20% of hikers are trail runners too. Sure you don’t want to create a trail running forum but I think an added section for that would be great.

The emphasis would still be on the Berg. I don’t see that ever changing, and nor should it. But a single forum that encompasses more areas through the great people that already contribute here would be magic.

Thoughts? :whistle:
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13 Apr 2017 13:15 #71364 by Papa Dragon
Replied by Papa Dragon on topic Sections
Sound like a great idea Adrian.
While my area of interest is definitely the 'Berg at present, and probably always will be, I reckon a couple more sections might be a good thing for the forum generally..
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13 Apr 2017 18:11 #71365 by andrew r
Replied by andrew r on topic Sections
Useful constructive suggestions Adrian, thanks. I guess it depends on whether this is a mountain forum with strong emphasis on the Drakensberg-Maloti mountain range, or a hiking forum with strong emphasis on hiking in the Drakensberg-Malotis. To me, it is both and while I am primarily interested in hiking in the Berg, I'm just as interested in the Himalaya as I would be in learning more about people's adventures on the Tsitsikamma trails.

So ja, I'd like to see your suggestions trialled for a fixed period to gauge the uptake.

make a difference. today.
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14 Apr 2017 21:42 #71367 by intrepid
Replied by intrepid on topic Sections
Thanks for your suggestion AdrianT. Certainly we can look at expanding the sections. This is just a quick reply and I'll look at this further after the Easter period. Suggestions on the breakdown are welcome, particularly the trail running part.

Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
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15 Apr 2017 16:28 #71368 by Macc
Replied by Macc on topic Sections
I'm not sure I agree...except for the trail running part.

For me, VE is about the Berg. So when I log in and see 6 new posts I know I can go a read 6 topics about berg related stuff of which most of it will be interesting to me. I'm not really that interested in reading about the rest of SA unless I have a particular interest or an upcoming trip so encouraging my posts for other areas would mean more posts to wade through to find the golden nuggets that interest me (to clarify, all of SA interests me a lot, but not on a daily basis like the Berg does). for example, take ClimbZA - it has piles and piles of interesting and helpful content on, but SO much of it doesn't apply to me, or anywhere near to me, so I only use it when looking up something specific and don't read the forums post-for-post or participate like I do on VE.

In this way, I kinda like the way it is structured now...although I do see usefulness in adding more subsections under 'Other Regions' so if I was interested in say Magaliesberg or Cederberg it would be easier to find. And yes, it is quite nice to read about VE members adventures in both far and wide places, but ultimately it should be a strongly focused on the Berg. 'Other Regions' could change to 'Rest of South Africa' and then add 'International' for everything outside of SA.

I accept that these are purely selfish reasons though.

Regarding trail running, I think this could definitely do with a bit of a boost on the site. To me, the most popular ways people experience the berg are hiking, climbing and trail running, with trail running probably more popular than climbing these days. The first two of these are well covered already and have their own sections, therefore it seems only logical that trail running gets more included.

"The three rules of mountaineering: It’s always further, taller and harder than it looks."
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17 Apr 2017 08:09 #71369 by Rhinoandhedgehog
Replied by Rhinoandhedgehog on topic Sections

Macc wrote: I'm not sure I agree...except for the trail running part.

Regarding trail running, I think this could definitely do with a bit of a boost on the site. To me, the most popular ways people experience the berg are hiking, climbing and trail running, with trail running probably more popular than climbing these days. The first two of these are well covered already and have their own sections, therefore it seems only logical that trail running gets more included.


We have to agree - Trail running is growing in the berg and will draw a large following - there some very fit members here already and it can only grow.
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04 May 2017 23:05 #71491 by intrepid
Replied by intrepid on topic Sections
Thanks for everyone's input so far.

It's always good for me to listen to how members describe VE. It reflects tastes, opinions, as well as how the site is being used by its members. This is something I always take note of. I would point out however that VE has never been purely a Berg site, nor has it been a hiking site, though undoubtedly the majority of content focuses on these.

When Vertical Endeavour was first set up, the name was actually intended for an agency/guiding company spec aliasing in Himalayan adventures. At the same time we (domsmooth and I) always wanted to establish a forum for the Berg. A forum had existed for a limited time prior to that, but at the time VE started there was a void which we wanted to fill. Besides just wanting to establish a place where people passionate about the Berg could connect, I specially always wanted to promote environmental awareness for the Berg. Additionally I wanted there to be open and frank discussion concerning security issues so that we could all venture out into the Berg armed with facts and alertness.

Instead of starting up 2 different websites we decided to combine the two, with the option of possibly separating them later again. Combining the two made sense anyway in that it was all promoting an interest in mountains. So when the site was launched, by definition it was a mountain site "featuring the Maloti-Drakensberg Mountains of South Africa & Lesotho, and the Himalayas of Nepal and Tibet". Sometime after this, for various reasons, I paused the intention of developing VE as an agency, whereas the forum was gaining momentum, particularly in Drakensberg related topics. Ten years on, "VE" is now strongly connected to the Berg, and making a tangible impact. This is what VE has become. It is a good development, an exciting development, and there is no intention to change that. I enjoy the fact that VE is seen by many as a Berg site, and am happy for that to continue, but at its inception it always has been broader than that.

Bring people together and you land up with something greater than the sum of what each person can individually contribute. It's called synergy and it is a remarkable power bestowed on the human race collectively. What has happened within the VE community is synergy at work. With this in mind, I do appreciate suggestions that members make and take note of how the forum is being utilised. With this particular suggestion I do believe it can be accommodated without compromising what VE is. The focus will undoubtedly remain on the Maloti-Drakensberg, with dedicated and expanded sections and categories.

I hear the concerns about the forum becoming busy with topics that are not Berg related, but we will maintain a strict management of sticking to topics and categories as we have thus far already. If you only want to check for new posts on the Berg, you can easily see these by clicking on www.vertical-endeavour.com/forum/1-drakensberg-forum.html

Now, as to what new categories to add: ideally we want to have a good balance between new categories which need to get filled, and not having too many new ones which remain empty for a long time. We used to have expanded categories for Nepal and Tibet which were later condensed into basically one category, so I'm open for some experimentation which may in the end result in a similar kind of "pruning" if it doesn't catch on. On the other hand, categories such as the one for the Wolkberg and the Gear category arose naturally from the amount of topics already being posted for these under the "General category", so I'm equally open to facilitating trends and growth as they occur. Can those that want these new sections give more detail on how we can do this by creating lists? Perhaps, as a start, we can identify a further 2-3 popular and well-known ranges such as Cederberg and give these their own categories, and then supply regional categories for everything else? Can I also ask for more show of support from members as to what other regions interest them, and more specifically can I ask if you would be able to post content into them quite quickly (like trip write-ups) to help populate the new categories?

About trail running, I am happy to create such a sub-category under the Drakensberg section. Is there sufficient interest for one under the Lesotho as well as the General section too?

Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
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12 Jun 2017 06:44 - 12 Jun 2017 06:47 #71721 by intrepid
Replied by intrepid on topic Sections
So the following categories have been added:

Drakensberg Huts
- this was actually added some time ago, and though a small category should help people find things more easily.

Drakensberg Trail Running & Adventure Racing
- I have lumped the 2 categories together for now as they seem to fit. If these topics take off we can split them later. Note the category description:

Everything relating to the activity of trail running in the Drakensberg, except topics specific to trail conditions, water availability, passes, the Grand Traverse etc., which can be addressed in the other categories. Adventure racing on various modes of transport can also be included here.


Cape Mountains
- we already had numerous threads going for this, and this category was among the most deserving of the new ones.

South Africa - rather than splitting things up by provinces or groups of provinces, I have taken the more conservative approach for now with this category, which catches everything in SA that isn't covered by the Drakensberg, Cape Mountains, Magaliesberg and Wolkberg categories. If we see an increase in topics under this category, we can most certainly look at splitting this up into more categories later. In the description I have indicated that it is for "everything relating to mountains or hiking in South Africa". This is in recognition of the fact of course there is hiking which isn't in mountains. Though VE is a mountain-interest site, I am giving room to the broader topic of hiking.

Under the General section I have added three new categories which cater to topics relating to the three mountain sports most talked about on this forum. These are for topics that are not tied to a specific region of mountain range. The new categories are:
  1. Hiking
  2. Climbing & Mountaineering
  3. Trail Running

We already had threads going relating to the first two, and the third has been created on request.

As part of a review of the categories, I have also removed some of the Lesotho categories (Climbing, Passes & Peaks), as these were under-utilised. The threads that were in these have been moved to the Lesotho General category. Though the Lesotho section of the forum isn't heavily utilised at present, in principal I would like to continue support for it. Not only is Lesotho an important part of the Maloti-Drakensberg Mountains (which VE seeks to promote as a whole), but I believe Lesotho as a country it is an undervalued little gem that I encourage people to visit.

I hope the above changes will give members more room on the forum. Thanks to everyone that has given their thoughts on this. I have listened to everyone's input and opinions and these changes were also discussed within the moderator team. It is not always easy to arrive at a solution which caters to everyone's tastes and approach to things, but above all we strive to keep this forum on a positive course that is both adaptive and dynamic in it's approach.

Enjoy! :thumbsup:

Take nothing but litter, leave nothing but a cleaner Drakensberg.
Last edit: 12 Jun 2017 06:47 by intrepid. Reason: typo
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12 Jun 2017 09:21 #71722 by AdrianT
Replied by AdrianT on topic Sections
Hi Chris. Your time, and that of the moderators, in making these decisions and implementing the change is much appreciated. I am positive the new sections will gain traction over the coming months. And if not, you are clearly flexible enough to adapt to the change which is a key ingredient to success in anything in life. :cheer:

Thank you for this!!! :thumbsup: B)
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